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Капитализм - это собачье дерьмо издание 
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Dis place iz smol - which is fine
No stickers - which is sad
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Only 1 (one) file oer post?! In 02k025?!
Eugh
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cringe
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>>4564
indeed

>>4558
who is that
>>4565
Did you take this pic
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https://youtu.be/w5IjgeMmajk

>>4574
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picrelated
infb4
<- they can.
(& so is kimi too)
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>>4567
No, but I could be the one. I believe I can be a guy having this Quadro Sausage Hunger Destroyer myself once. Everyone could
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>>4582
"Too big for me... I'd rather take the beer."
Aradia.site has fallen 
Again
>>4606
AMERICAAAAAAAAAA :argh:
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>>4607
I doubt it United States are to blame that german domain zone site mostly unreachable for a random guy from Russia.
:huh::buh:
...Or do they?!
>>4566
https://vndb.org/v21289
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NTA were it trueweird
>>4621
Fakeweird.
>>4622
Be gentle to this game creatura. The girl who made obviously can even draw, but she trying 
>>4623
>Can't
>>4623
>>4624
I think the amateur art has charm
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>>4622
It's mostly unironic in ways that the screenshot doesn't capture and certainly more weirdthentic than pic related although.

I also find the art style charming
>>4626
What the hell am I looking at
>>4627
Women in Video Games
https://lenanw.itch.io/nightmare-temptation-academy
>>4558
Saved
>>4558
Deleted
WHO TF IS >>4558
PLZ EKZPLAIN
>>4710
It looks like someone deleted her, but she was best girl
Cull yourself, Lucas.
NUGGET BISCUIT, NUGGET IN A BISCUIT 
Pierre-Félix Guattari
its evven more ovver than it already wwas
-sent from openai browser
>>4754
wweh 
come back
baby eri need food
>>4754
>its evven more ovver than it already wwas
Wwhy? Wwhat's ovver?
>>4811
Mozilla stopped working with me on here for a bit. Thankfully resolved (for now?)
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Red Sonya (2025) be like
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Red Sonya (2025) be like (part 2 due to site inability to upload 2 files)
>>4905
>>4906
What does this mean
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>>4910
>What does this mean
A movie. An actress.
>>4911
Her body is just as beautiful as any others... Aaaah...
>>4914
Not canon = bad
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>>4940
shake shack is the best I've had from this picture. it's pricey but they do it right if you like smash burgers
>>4941
I've never had one before. There's one near my house and when I peeked in, it resembled something like Five Guys. Is it really that better than theirs?
>>4940
Have tased only McD and BK out if them. Honestly, McD default burgers tastes better
>>4948
Russian SUBSUMED by American temptations...
>>4946
in my opinion, yes, but they're both in the same price range iirc, so it probably depends on your personal burger preferences. five guys is more of a "traditional" burger in my mind, whereas the shake shack burger is more modern/cheffy. pretty sure it's smaller too but I haven't had either in a long while. I used to live right next to a five guys, I miss getting those shakes...

but yeah, you should try shake shack sometime!
>>4940
Five guys always looks thrice as compacted and sweaty as this pic because of the foil wrap

givve me the castle
>>4950
>whereas the shake shack burger is more modern/cheffy
Elaborate? You're turning me off, honestly.
>>4953
idk, that's just sort of the way they pitched it when it was a new restaurant. it was founded by the guy who used to run eleven madison park (famous fine-dining restaurant). they use martin's potato rolls, the burgers are smashed which is kind of a "trendy" technique (or at least was), the sauce is a flavored mayo, their chicken sandwiches are made sous vide, etc

I'm not saying it's "fancy" per se, it was just designed very intentionally by people with advanced culinary backgrounds, and I think that shows in a good way.
Remember many years ago there was a meme "moot is kill"?
I know who was Moot, but but the meaning if "...is kill?"
>>4976
He passed away...
>>4976
Moot is dead
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>>4978
>>4982
>>4976
Spoiler File
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Humina humina humina!
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>>4978
>>4982
>>4983
:poisongulp:
>>5002
that is a kissable face
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>>5007
Would you comment on Hussie's gf's shirt, or mumble something inaudible?
>>5051
I don't have a tendency to comment on people's attire unless we're already in a conversation
>>5052
Why not?
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Homestuck was picked up by VIZ? WHAT? WHY?
>>5059
I think WhatPumpkin was deep in the shit and sold publishing rights before the dregs of popularity were fully extinguished.
>>5055
Probably because I rarely care about what I wear. So in the spur of the moment it's not the first thing on my mind, even though, for a lot of people, it's something they'd like to talk about. I usually only talk about clothes once the group has run out of things to talk about.
>>5059
Fun fact, Viz immediately lost interest after buying it and they let it to rot lol
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Russian Homestuck thread explosed with activity as a bee hive after hive intruder intruding.
People saying there's a planned and confirmed animation series based off of Homestuck.
Emily Yocis, animator known for being a "Hazbin Hotel" cartoon chardev and main animator and a creation of an animation clip for MC Bushpig & MC Mangina "Rotten meat" song, seem to be leading artist in Homestuck The Anime too
>>5121
Meggychan summary of the day, since you're locked

https://files.catbox.moe/ydh42m.mp4
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>>5158
Why thank you!
But who made this analytics?  MEX? If it's a work of outsider, the whom and why? What's the point of checking a really smol site's community's reaction? And why this presentation more like slideshow that explains, but not shows what it telling about? Not a single screen
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>>5190
>Who
Pic related.
It was one of the (now traditional, I guess) AI generated slop podcasts, they added a video summary feature
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>>5201
Meh
Meeh
Meeeh
What a shame
Not cool ahckschooahlee
anyone wwanna trauma bond
>>4546 (OP) 
Kill yourself, commie
>>6448
This isn't very nice.
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>>6448
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>>6448
>>4546 (OP) 
Go kill yourself, communist parasite
I use to be against communism off principle but I've come to appreciate the fact that politics is fundamentally about keeping people in power rather than an actual testament to the ways humans have to organize themselves to accommodate their animalistic nature. Politics is fundamentally artificial and contrived, and everything and anything will be used to justify systems of power.
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>>6830
I never made this thread out of love for communism, it's more of an inside joke with a Russian namefriend - although, it is a nice "test" to see which here is politically autistic enough to get bothered by it.
>>6832
people can't read your mind, yknow
>>6831
the idea is that you're supposed to be for communism in theory but against it in practice. it's very ethical and rational on paper but doesn't work work with human greed and ambitions as the ultimate motivator
>>6833
Hardly an excuse to tell someone to kill themselves.
>>6831
I mean also. At a level, everything social is a system of power but this doesn't necessarily mean morality in itself is not a real thing. Everything, is, in some way, a system of power. Don't push yourself to nihilistic loops with this excuse.

A basic understanding of thermodynamics and physics shows that no two actions, entity, matter, no two anything is the same. Yes, politics exist for the purpose of justifying systems of power, but no two leader will be the same.

No two ANYTHING will be the same. This is a physical reality, which can be extrapolated to social thinking as well. Nothing you do, nothing I do, nothing anyone does can be meaningless because reality itself is irrefutably altered by every action that is taken, including the act of not taking any actions in itself. 

Hold your breath for half a second. Now exhale. You've just irreversably altered the direction of the universe. Things will now be incomparably different because you held your breath. It takes 230~ ish days to break through an average-strength wall at the pace of throwing one stone a day if you can hit the general same area. Less than that if you throw two a day. etc.
>>6833
I got it v0v
>>6836
I'm not a nihilist and I didn't bring up morality. Whether things are affected by actions or not isn't a question of nihilism, anyway. What I mean is that the arguments against communism on the basis of human nature is meaningless and boils down to an appeal of how people currently act to justify why they should continue to act in this way. More than that, capitalism always ends in monopolies of power, so even the idea of appealing to human greed as a catalyst for beneficial change falls flat on its face.
>>6835
i didnt say that, but "ironically" posting about politics doesnt exactly come across so obvious over text
>>6840
Ok. My only intent is to push back on rudeness when it pops up
>>6834
>doesn't work work with human greed and ambitions as the ultimate motivator
this is what I was taught as a kid, but I don't believe it now that I've grown up and examined it critically. idk, it's kinda "baby's first argument against socialized policies". like the other zinon said, we have a tendency to justify the status quo with ideas about inherent human nature, when in reality our ideas about human nature themselves are deeply influenced by the status quo.
there are loads of examples of how humans exhibit behavior that is pro-social rather than exclusively self-serving. those very pro-social instincts are an essential part of what has enabled humans to come so far. humans can also exhibit self-serving behaviors as well, but to use either of these as philosophical gotchas for dismissing an entire system of economic arrangement is jumping the gun.
>>6838
>capitalism always ends in monopolies of power
kinda. I don't disagree with this, capitalism does end in monopolies. but I do feel like it's necessary to point out the "smaller pockets of power differentials" if you'd call it that. the concept of a power monopoly, is, indeed, scary to look at. and I don't necessarily disagree on the point that monopolies of power exist. the reason I gave my examples was on the basis that power having been monopolized, does not mean that we're powerless. the idea that any agent of a system can ever be powerless, is, outright false. realistically, the only way anyone can completely be powerless, is on the basis that, energy is being exhausted solely to keep them powerless, which is a waste of resources, in the sense that, on the hypothetical that a person is kept completely powerless (if possible at all) within a system, then the system in itself would have to be losing resources out on this act of cruelty. but soon as you have any kind of input into the system, you inherently have an amount of power that, can be leveraged.

now this doesn't mean we can bulldoze systems of power. but from the perspective of "the average joe" (i.e. you don't own an empire) here comes the importance of studying guerilla warfare, insurgency, etc. every system has cracks, a larger entity will always irrefutably be slower, etc.

to put very shortly; study the taliban and the concept of what a "war of attrition" is. hint: every war is a war of attrition. this isn't a principle solely to wars. the core principle is simple: you outlast. you dig dirtier into the dirt until the other thing gives up. until life gets better. until people start acting better, or give up, etc. it's not pleasant to do. not arguing that. fighting a war of attrition is always ugly, possibly painful and uncomfortable. 

>"isn't this just victim blaming? why are you acting like its my sole responsibility to fight the war? that doesn't sound fair!"
it is not. I wish we could live in a world where everyone is comfortable, fulfilled, and happy. but the harsh reality is that if we can't bear the current state of something, and no one else is doing anything about it, then we ourselves should. I try applying this to my own problems. not to perfection, as with everyone else, of course.
>>6844
I feel like the practical impossibility is- maybe not actually. I have never really done a very well in-depth research of what communism realistically is. I think my internal understanding of "communism" is probably severely outdated by now and anyone trying to build "a communism" would do nothing akin to it. I don't want to keep you waiting on a reply though. I'll come back to update on this when I have read more about communism, but I think you do have a good point. We (or I, I guess) probably have a baseline tendency to act like the status quo must be the only valid way or something. 

I do kinda get to a "how the fuck do we have all these excess resources but instead of having everyone get something we have some people wasting things while others get less than they need? it makes no sense."  myself sometimes so, probably right to some extent that it COULD be applicable. I'll do some research on it when I can spare the time and later update on this I think. mkay. GONE!
>>6850
wow okay I did repeat myself in a weird way here sorry. goes like this when I spend too long thinking/talking without a break, my bad
>>6850
I can continue this now. I feel like the idea of capitalism is inherently rooted in the fact that the overarching system will always be decided by the dominant force of power. This is step 1. Step 2 is that, you, as the dominant power, would never realistically want to give anyone an equal share, from a geopolitical perspective, because you have the upper hand. why would you give up power? you wouldn't. Hence we have capitalism. Power serves power because the powerful wouldn't want to give the power up. This is step 2.

Step 3 is the general relative issue with social systems that in which, while social systems (and nothing, really) is never monopolar, albeit, equally, never in perfect equilibrium, the issue is that within a social system (i.e. free healthcare) realistically speaking, two groups are going to be the major benefactors; the ones who contribute the LEAST (bottom class) and the ones who own THE most.
footnote; the ones who contribute the least benefit "the most" in terms of ROI here. They're effectively getting the most out of the given system because they contribute the least in contrast. Now I get this might sound like a "thingamagicy" here so I'll examplify this; The majority of the global pharma industry is (as with, basically fucking everything I think) is dominated by the U.S. (in terms of R&D and innovation) this is caused by multiple reasons that contribute to a circular dichotomy;
1 - Non U.S. innovatives/creatives/whatever "brain force" has the tendency to migrate from [shitholes] to, generally the west. No statistics on this, I may be wrong but if I had to take an educated guess, I could probably guess that most people with "brain force" migrate to the U.S. primary if possible (if they can speak amerishartican, etc.) 
2 - Why do they do this? because they feel like they're underappreciated in their shitholes
3 - Why do people feel underappreciated in their shitholes? because the shithole is fundamentally, fucking broke.
4 - Why are shitholes broke? a good soup of colonialism, imperialism, political interventions, literally owning less metric volume (hence also mass) of land, and, functionally, because they're fucking broke (lol)

Now, I'm not arguing "for" or "against" communism here. I'd still argue that it appears to be the most ethical option to me. But here is the issue. When you become the "guy on the other side of the fence" and "on the throne" you will have to answer one question; 

"You're broke as shit. I am not. Why should I fucking care to do shit for you?"

Hence; we loop back to insurgency. Which brings up the main question; can socialism/communism be brought to a global (because you cannot commune the ist in a global capital) scale? not really. Why?

Now we loop back. How do you enforce the global mode of operation? By becoming the dominant force. Why would you give up power if you're the dominant force? You most probably won't. What could we do to change this?

At a general "average human bean" scale? I don't think we effectively can. Now I did earlier say "all actions matter" and I want to draw the specifications so that I don't seem to "contradict" myself here. Power is, a tool, a force, a mandate. Basic logics; You become the dominant force to enforce equity. How do you do this? How do you KEEP doing this? You can't, at a rational level, it makes no sense. Why?

>You rise to become the dominant hand because you're sick of the dominant hand taking a larger slice than you do from the pie
>The first conclusion you'll have is going to be "I rose to power. No one else did. No one else chose to struggle the struggles I struggled with. They are clearly weaker in character. I want equity, but I have to maintain my position of the upper hand in order to enforce equity. How do I do this? I'll have to take a larger slice for myself so I can keep doing this- but wait. what about my right hand man? he will then see, that I bear the power to distribute the pie. If I give him a slice equal to everyone else, he will logically conclude that he should abuse his position to prey on my vulnerabilities so that he can dictate which direction the pie goes. I will have to give him a slice slightly larger than the everyman, but slightly smaller than mine- but wait- how does he make sure that..."
>rinse repeat ad nauseam
>this is why you're eating crumbs
>this is also why you'd probably feed everyone else crumbs

Again. This isn't a "personal preferential opinion." This was the only conclusion I could come up with in terms of "how does one maintain the position of being the enforcer while distributing equity?" and I find it that, one cannot. 

This is one of the most uncomfortable things about power. You have to seize it in order to enforce equity. But you have to maintain your power to be able to enforce equity. The line of "moral" and "immoral" blurs permanently when you "become caesar" if you will. Every action you take, is your fault. Every action you don't, is also your fault.
>>6859
The common American dream is to work hard so that you can enslave others who aren't as deserving of power because they're lazy and stupid, which is why they (use to) want to defend their current system. It isn't about attrition warfare, it's about taking advantage of what other people want to enforce your own power.
>>6862
could've sworn I replied to this when I woke up.

anyways. yes, but no. but also, no.
>power dynamics are everywhere
yes. irrefutably. but technically;
>power dynamics are power exchanges, not dynamics
and therefore
>if power dynamics are everywhere, everything is about power
no.

do parents have kids because "they want power over the kids"? does marzi operate this website because he "wants power over a userbase"? 

within any given system, first off, you will never do something that you genuinely don't want to do. additionally, you can not make someone do something that they never wanted to. but you can nudge them.

I'll try keeping it simple;
>I'm the tyrant
>I want you to [do something]
>otherwise I wouldn't even be the tyrant over you
>you want [something] in return for [doing something for me]
>I brutalize you until the point of equilibrium/you protest me until the point of equilibrium
>we find the median ground where you can accept what you get, and I can accept what you do
>else the system will not operate at all

when any amount of people opt to do something, they do so for their inner reasons. this may (and perhaps is most commonly) for and out of comfort. this is personal agency. Slavery did not stop spartacus, yet spartacus couldn't stop slavery either. Neither did lincoln, however. 

If an agent is in a [system] yet [choose to complain about said system] while [doing nothing] they can realistically not be a victim in my view. We may not be able to make things happen to the perfection, but we always have the agency to act. If you're telling yourself "I would've been making art if only I had more money to do it" you're simply lying to yourself because you don't want to make art.

Basic example; A man can use social wit, charisma, a pen, a chair, a knife, or physical training for the means of self-defense. If said man says "I am helpless against the whims of this person" they are actively choosing that. 

results = guaranteed
the exact perfected specific results you want = not guaranteed
if there is will = there is a way
>>6863
I really feel like like you make a lot of assumptions that don't necessarily follow from what is written. Not everything is about power, that's very much so not the case. Power is just something that some people want more than others, and those people have a personal reason to pursue it. You could say that I'm oversimplifying since "power" as a concept is just an abstraction of a system that defines itself off of who has the ability to manipulate what levers to get whatever desired result, and the ability to perform this isn't necessarily related to the colloquial idea of social power, and also can be reduced to a truthism that says nothing to any particular situation. 
Someone who really likes doing origami would want the power to do origami, and whatever levers he has to pull in order to get his desired result is undesirable work that others can nonetheless take advantage of. He "wants power" and "does work in order to get power" because he likes doing origami and has no personal ability to leverage any other system than the one that's already established by the people he's a community member of. 

>you will never do something that you genuinely don't want to do
You can be coerced into action due to fear of many different things. Ultimately people fear death and will continue to exist because they want to live, and suffer because of it. 
>you can not make someone do something that they never wanted to. but you can nudge them
Again, coercion exists. If you define "wanting" as "doing in any capacity for any reason" then you're doing an extreme disservice to a person's well-being. Also it's a butchering of the idea of "wanting". 

>If an agent is in a [system] yet [choose to complain about said system] while [doing nothing] they can realistically not be a victim in my view
I don't know how to phrase this as anything but that you're a monster. A child that's been abused and doesn't have any concept of anything but the system he's currently subjected to doesn't stop being a victim just because he has no method of escape, even if someone else might know of one, or if one is theoretically possible. 

>you're simply lying to yourself because you don't want to make art
Often the use of this kind of phrasing of "lying because you're actually just ignorant or didn't consider X" is just an attention-seeking way of making someone feel bad about themselves. In the case of someone who's well-off but chooses not to make art because he's tired of doing other things what you're saying could be true, but he wouldn't really be lying to himself, he just doesn't want to make art enough to force himself to do it, or he thinks he'd like doing art. 

Your thinking assumes that someone has the basic capacity to perform certain things and that not doing it is a result of not desiring to do so. When taken out of the constrains of that comfortable environment, such as when someone doesn't have the knowledge of how to do something, can't access that knowledge, or truly is incapable of performing the act due to some impairment or environmental limitation, it turns into ceaseless cruelty.
>>6844
maybe you arent selfish, but i would not trust the vast majority of people i have met to effectively run a commune, even (maybe especially) my family. too much ego and greed in the world. i think it goes past political paradigms or human nature too. if something is desperate to survive and procreate, even if it must compete with its own kind for resources and mates, its kind will continue to exist in some shape. i would say there is a strong socialist spirit in societies like what the amish and miscellaneous farming co-ops have established. doesnt seem like the altruism and unconditionally cooperative temperament necessary for functioning communism exist in large enough quantities to enact an analogue on a national scale, however.
>>6903
Communism is when the people own the means of production and wealth is shared. Living in a commune isn't necessary. 
It's very simple to have an immune system that fights against infections. If something desperate to survive wants to harm others, those others just eliminate the threat. Not that I'm a communist, I've just grown skeptical of the idea of capitalism.
>>6869
You are cute but that doesn't absolve you of my judgement nonetheless.

>Not everything is about power
Everything IS about power. But never JUST about power. Nothing in life is not about power, including the very lack of something in itself. 


You're doing this shenanigan thing my brother does when he can't beat the rational he starts microcosming his thoughts into tiny anecdotes when we're trying to observe systems. Nonethless I'll engage. 

>Person wants to do origami
I track
>They pull the levers to do origami
I track
>Others take advantage of it
Yes. inefficiencies are most present in the presence of density. One must cease to exist in order to NOT be taken advantage of by some degree. This isn't even necessarily the prospect of "being taken advantage of" this is the reality of thermodynamic tendency towards equilibrium. When you say "not being taken advantage of" you're creating an impossible state of total sovereignty where you need nothing from anyone else nor arr you giving anything to anyone else. This is an impossible scenario. 

>B-but being taken advantage of-
are YOU not taking advantage of anyone? am I not? are we all, not, to some extent, taking advantage of something, someone, some-ones? how else do you continue your homeostasis? If you say "photosynthesis" then you're taking advantage of the sun, at the very least. The idea isn't to "not be taken advantage of" the idea is to have enough control over who's taking advantage over you so you can close-circle the "waste" (enough) to the point that your waste sticks to the nearest static unit, then the nearest static unit, which is, in general social circles, the default without interference.

>Coercion exists
for whom? are you consistently coerced 24/7? in order to do so an entity must appoint an entire human unit to watch over you 24/7. At which point you are null to your captot's benefit. Do you think there's a greater system that watches every CCTV everywhere every hour of the day scanning every byte of data for "criminal activities"? it takes more total resources to operate a system that supersedes the base system (which is impossible from once again a thermodynamic perspective) that creates 24/7 jurisdiction over everything and everyone. 

Were you coerced? okay.
Are you constant and consistently being coerced? no? then choose to act against things you dislike within the pockets. Again. It takes the smallest amount of effort to start causing change. You must've never gone "beyond the garden walls" that you don't realize the hills are maybe an hour's walk. The MILDEST bit of effort. 

Do you know why? Discipline and consistency and resilience are rare traits BECAUSE everyone opts for comfort. The "captors" aren't gods. They're also fleshbags like you. Do you know how fragile the average fleshbag is? Soon as you make it more profitable to co-operate with you instead of oppressing you (which is already a small margin) you will have dictated the grounds. This is immensely more achievable than you've convinced yourself it to be.

>A child
oh shut up.
>A child that's been abused! You momster!
I was abused as a child. I also "didn't know anything beyond the systems I was inside of" until some day I snapped and beat the living shit out of the person abusing me when I was 15. You keep your dramatic strawman hypotheticals to yourself.

>A person who thinks they want to make art but aren't doing it "aren't lying to themselves"
right. the same way an obese person trying to lose weight is constantly "in the process of losing weight" then?

>Your thinking assumes that someone has the basic capacity to perform certain things and that not doing it is a result of not desiring to do so 
yes.

>When taken out of the constrains of that comfortable environment, such as when someone doesn't have the knowledge of how to do something, can't access that knowledge, or truly is incapable of performing the act due to some impairment or environmental limitation, it turns into ceaseless cruelty

idk broski. I learned english with 0 formal or even self education solely through exposure. I never took a single tutorial in how to paint, draw, or make music. You're acting like external information is supposed to be the baseline, it is not. You'll agree that evolution didn't proceed through academia? no one taught us how to invent fire. we kinda just like. did. at some point? how else would we ever achieve new information if all information had to be taught to us by an external individual? no one could invent anything then.

I prescribe you one chill-pill and a cup of warm tea. You need to get around people you like. You seem socially lost, which I don't find too distinct for myself so I know how it feels.
>>6907
i dont think capitalism is good either but i do think a fatal flaw of any human system is the deficit of trustworthiness afflicting a significant amount of the population. many people do not want equity, in particular those whom tend to be drawn to economical or political pursuits.
>>6908
I don't know what you're arguing for because it's hard to follow you from the assumptions you make about random things. You're already contradicting yourself by saying not everything is about power and then saying everything is about power. You're not being consistent. 

>he can't beat the rational he starts microcosming his thoughts into tiny anecdotes
I'm arguing against myself. You accused me of thinking everything is about power. I was writing out for your benefit why such thinking is reductive and unexplanatory. You're an idiot. 
>are YOU not taking advantage of anyone
This isn't relevant outside of the made up Argentina you think i'm making. 
>for whom
To people who are being forced to do things. 
>I was abused as a child
That sucks. 
>until some day I snapped and beat the living shit out of the person abusing me when I was 15
Now imagine if you were impaired physically or mentally. The abuse will continue.
>Argentina
Meant arguments.
>>6915
I didn't mean to accuse you of thinking everything is about power. I personally think everything, to some extent, is about power. But they're not just about power. I'll start grounding my points in personal examples so you can better track what I mean;

>Zinon thinks everything is about power
yes
>Why?
it's the rational (even if subconscious) choices we're making. 
>I paint
Why?
>I believe creation without expectations of return means something
>Therefore I paint
>I do what I find reasonable (naturally) and by doing so I (naturally) conclude that what I'm doing is the right way of doing things. Or else I wouldn't be doing it myself.
And?
>This can simultaneously be argued as "He paints because sunk cost! he wants to validate his personal hobbies and preferences!
or
>He paints because he finds it meaningful
The truth is always somewhere in between. I relatively AM your "origami enthusiast" example myself, and I still question whether I paint because I'm good at painting and then I ad-hoc justify this with "meaning" or if I do it because I find it to be meaningful.

Measures are gradients is my point.
You kinda did skip out on some of my points, which I'm not gonna judge. After some reflecting I did notice that I present fallacies and contradictions in disconnected enough parts that my position (at least to myself) seems loosely circular. I'm not trying to be an asshole here. Everyone has issues, I respect it. I just find more respect for the people I perceive to be working to fix/combat them. 

>Now imagine if you were impaired physically or mentally. The abuse will continue.
Not to be a pedant asshole but I can present enough points against this;
>I am overpowered
utilize a sharp tool to threaten the other person (I have done this)
>I am outnumbered
refer to the previous answer
>The course of action is a legal impasse
I write (have written) full legal complaints and used this as a threat to take legal actions if people don't start behaving appropriately
>I am outfinanced
I present people the "I know where you live, work, eat, sleep. All the money in the world takes one lead shell to be lost." ultimatum
>But I don't have a gun?!
yeah neither did I but a lie presented with enough conviction SELLS.
>>6920
>You kinda did skip out on some of my points, which I'm not gonna judge. After some reflecting I did notice that I present fallacies and contradictions in disconnected enough parts that my position (at least to myself) seems loosely circular. I'm not trying to be an asshole here. Everyone has issues, I respect it. I just find more respect for the people I perceive to be working to fix/combat them. 

I meant to say that I reflected on my own words and criticized myself over what I've been saying so far. Even though you "haven't caught" the "mistakes" I've made I still cared to notice my own faulty thinking is the point. I just don't wanna come off like a combative asshole so I did the curiculum by myself.
>>6920
I have no interest in continuing an emotionally driven reply chain, especially when what is being talked about isn't clear.
>>6925
>lazy bumfuck neet constantly whinging in conversations for validation tries digging into politics
>absolutely fucking smothers the topic because his general intellectual capacity can't go beyond "let me change the topic" to "I don't care to talk about this anymore lol I'm tired haha"
>misreads someone else's position of what power is as "are you accusing me of this?"
>uses a "but child abuse" example to "make a point"
>backs out because "this is an emotionally driven reply chain"

holy FUCK. you're dense. get a fucking job dude. stop wasting your bitchmade room temp iq lack-thereof-intellect on trying to dissect politics. go edate some manipulable tardant on discord please. you're insufferable
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>>6926
I wonder what things you'd have to feel in order to act like you do.
>>6927
the overwhelming responsibility and joy of the agency you refuse to bear. You use hypotheticals to dodge accountability, I've been through the hell of everything you theatricize in your head AND came out unscathed, sloth.
>>6929
This is a temper tantrum caused by someone disagreeing with you on something trivial. I'm sorry you feel the need to take responsibility for someone deciding to post in a thread on a whim. I know the apology, or sympathy, sounds disingenuous but I don't want to engage in something that feels purposely incomprehensible.
Perhaps it's make more sense to you if clarified: 
You're making yourself angry for reasons unrelated to me and it's only hurting you. This is self-harm and you should take responsibility for yourself and stop for your own benefit.
>>6932
>>6931
109th and 110th post best post
>>6931
>>6932
>fails to comprehend an intellectual concept
>my fault
>misreads my personal opinions as an accusation
>also my fault
>presents multiple bad faith examples
>my fault for saying "your hypothethical child should learn to fight back" because I can't save hypothetical victims
>disengages on the verdict that I'm "being emotionally driven" (after having started a conversation about "here's my thesis on why everything that isn't me myself is evil" btw)
>several stages of emotional decorum and courtship jerkbait accompanied with demands for a performance of any sorts
>probably even lacks the level of self awareness to realize "I'm flirting with a whole ass dude"
this is cute. Like I said earlier. I won't feed it. I'm taken.
>>6929
*takes a big fat stinky shit on this post*
• A wind brushes the grass •
>>6937
VGH SHIT TAKING IS FOR CLOSERS WORK ON THAT GRINDSET BWO
You can get him to self destruct just by being consistent and sticking with straight forward lines of reasoning.
>>6944
Imagine being proud of your contrarian backwardness, not me- (ah!)
>>6944
I don't self destruct I just bend. the handful of you geniuses can't comprehend abstract models, then get pissant mad at anecdotal examples because they're "emotionally driven"

like. mf. you're emotionally driven. yo ass usin communism as broth base for your own emotional panhandling when you don't understand basic political power dynamics. you just want a hug. the fuck?
>>6931
>>6932

okay I'll re-present my points using more basic language. here are the points;

1 - The Origami Enthusiast's Dilemma
>We live in a tribe
>Our tribe demands and declares that you must contribute to the tribe's well being
>The Origami Enthusiast makes origami
>Chieftain asks him "what do your origamis do for us?"
>He replies "they're meaningful and help keep up the morale."
This is the part where your personal ultimatum as to whether things can or can't have meaning.
>The Chieftain can decide whether;
>A - The Origami Enthusiast is correct. The origamis have meaning and he's contributing to the tribe.
>B - The Origami Enthusiast, having learned origami, is lying, about origamis having meaning, in order to maintain his comfort
The issue at hand; We may never know the correct answer. Because on one hand;
>Why would he keep making origamis? Why did he learn to make origami if he didn't find it in any way meaningful?
but on the other hand;
>At the given point in time, with all his time and personal effort invested into being a better origami maker, wouldn't he have a likelihood to lie to both us, and himself, that origamis must have a meaning, because he himself cannot bear the uncomfortable truth that, his origamis, perhaps, don't mean anything at all?
and the worst part is that;
>There is no universally objective way of answering this question

This contributes to my theory that a tribe of any sorts, has an EMOTIONAL (albeit not physical) need for a "meaning-maker." When you are the chieftain warlord, when you're working a wage-job, when your contributions are, no longer under the umbrella of "survival essentials" you will be inherently asking YOURSELF the question;
>Why do we keep fighting if we already have all this much?
A group of any and all sorts will have to be able to answer this to themselves, first and foremost, in order to be able to keep existing.

The second point;
MY personal opinion on agency;
>Life is brutal
>When if and since life is brutal, some bad shit, is, inherently bound to happen
>We SHOULD do our best to prevent bad shit from happening to people
>But only when people show individual dedication towards taking action regardless of their circumstances
Why?
>A person who isn't fighting injustice for themselves, I don't trust to help me fight it when/if the situation comes to be for me
Which is what my "Caesar's Dilemma" originally stemmed from;

>The realistic observations of a tribe of any sorts goes to show that not everyone wants to do things that make them uncomfortable
>When you show that you can do them, you are inherently declaring yourself as a more powerful entity
>This automatically presumes a level of authority over you, for two reasons
>1 - You've shown your willingness and capability to do things that others don't
>This inherently makes them feel weaker next to you, even in a self-admitted group of "we are all equals here"
>Which inherently impacts how they treat and act around you
>2 - Because they did not choose to take action on things that made them uncomfortable
>When you take action to solve a problem that was affecting everyone around;
>People who were refusing to take action will criticize you for it
>Because they themselves have already justified "why inaction is the best route here" and you just made them feel very insecure in their worldview
>When/if you end up in this situation, you will argue; "I took action. They did not. They don't get to complain about my solutions, because none of them were able to/had solved the problem that I solved. No one had done anything until I did something, therefore they do not get to question my methods. If they wanted to be "more moral" then they should've taken action themselves, not just sit by and criticize me for doing things."
Why am I giving this example? Because "equality" is easier to execute in theory. "Fairness" is hard to measure, especially when you have the awareness that, all people, have an inherent bias to believe their own ideas were the right ones.

Example;
>You have a cat
>Your cat keeps shitting on the carpet
>Steals food
>Scratches people
>Breaks things
>Everyone is complaining about it
>The only solution they present is "should we just leave it out on the street? it's not learning to adapt to a household properly."
>You come up with a solution;
>"The cat is an animal that doesn't understand "human speech. It will understand pain and discomfort, unfortunately."
>You proceed to smack the cat one time, every time it breaks the rules
>You are now declared an "animal abusing monster."
>By the very same people who, in their refusal to smack the cat, were contempting on whether to leave it out on the street, which was an inherently more harmful "solution."
This is "the caesar's dilemma" presented in an ugly reality. Not every solution (realistically, no solution) will be an easy, ethically clean solution. A person in the position of being a "leader" or a "problem solver" has to learn to dictate, ignore, or shut people up. Naturally, because sometimes, to do help, you must first do some harm. You will always be judged, but never guided.
>>6953
the whole thing you’re describing feels like a deep dilemma, but it’s actually built on a shaky assumption: that "meaning" exists as some objective substance a tribe has to detect, like iron ore hidden inside the origami. that’s why the whole origami scenario gets framed as a spooky fork: either the guy is sincere or he’s lying to protect his comfort

but people don’t work in binary like that. most human behavior is a mix of genuine feeling, self-serving bias, instinct, and habit. the idea that we’re supposed to look at him and say "is he telling the truth about meaning?" treats meaning like a physical property you can measure with a tool. you don’t "discover" meaning out there in nature; you create it through shared context.

so the supposed unsolvable puzzle: "we can never know if he’s lying or deluded" isn’t profound, it’s just based on the wrong premise. the tribe doesn’t need a divine meaning-maker, and it doesn’t need a single judge to certify meaning. meaning in a group is something that’s negotiated, not decreed. once one guy becomes the official “what matters” oracle, that’s not a tribe anymore, that’s a cult with extra steps.

and then there’s the agency part, which you’re tying to the same framework. you’re treating action as the primary moral currency; like the people who act are inherently more trustworthy, more reliable, more legitimate. but action isn’t proof of moral strength. it’s proof of temperament, internal wiring, trauma tolerance, risk calculation, energy levels, and a dozen invisible factors that don’t make someone "better" or "worse."

someone who doesn’t take initiative might be scared, overwhelmed, dissociated, conflict-averse, burned out, or simply processing things differently. none of that means they won’t have your back. none of that means they’re morally inferior. in a real group, people freeze, hesitate, wait, hope someone else will lead; it’s not cowardice, it’s just how humans actually behave when resources are limited.

but your framing jumps from there to:
>i acted
>they didn’t
>therefore they lose the right to criticize how i acted

and that’s the part that collapses the whole thing. because if initiative automatically grants immunity from criticism, then any leader can justify any method the moment they do something. outcome becomes righteousness. criticism becomes invalid unless the critic has performed the same actions at the same risk level. that isn’t leadership, it’s the psychological foundation of authoritarianism.

it’s also why the cat example doesn’t prove what you think it does. the fact that other people had bad solutions doesn’t mean your solution was morally clean. "no one did anything except me" doesn’t transform an approach into the correct one. effectiveness isn’t justification. people are allowed to feel disturbed by a method even if they had no better idea. moral discomfort isn’t hypocrisy, it’s part of collective life.

what your whole argument boils down to is a very specific emotional experience: being the one who acts, being criticized anyway, and feeling like everyone else wants the problem fixed but doesn’t want responsibility for any of the costs. that’s a real feeling, but it isn’t a philosophical foundation. it’s what happens when someone ends up carrying too much of the group’s load and starts thinking, consciously or not, "if i’m the only one doing anything, i must also be the only one who gets to decide the rules."

but that’s not how groups survive. the person who acts still has to stay answerable to the people who didn’t, not because those people are "better," but because power inherently blinds the one who holds it. people who freeze can still see things the actor missed. people who hesitate can still have moral instincts worth hearing.

action doesn’t make you right.
inaction doesn’t make you wrong.
meaning isn’t a mineral.
and solving a problem doesn’t make your methods unassailable.

groups hold together because everyone keeps the right to speak, even when they weren’t the one who stepped forward first. without that, you don’t get a tribe, you get a ruler and an audience.
>>6954
>but people don’t work in binary like that. most human behavior is a mix of genuine feeling, self-serving bias, instinct, and habit. the idea that we’re supposed to look at him and say "is he telling the truth about meaning?" treats meaning like a physical property you can measure with a tool. you don’t "discover" meaning out there in nature; you create it through shared context.
I see that you are yet to meet the hordes of nihilists (not even really nihilist, as the idea doesn't track with nietzschean really) and cynics out there. I don't disagree with the idea of thinking non-binary. But I do think people are both lenient towards thinking binary, and moreso, prone to being abused for having good faith.

>so the supposed unsolvable puzzle: "we can never know if he’s lying or deluded" isn’t profound, it’s just based on the wrong premise. the tribe doesn’t need a divine meaning-maker, and it doesn’t need a single judge to certify meaning. meaning in a group is something that’s negotiated, not decreed. once one guy becomes the official “what matters” oracle, that’s not a tribe anymore, that’s a cult with extra steps.
I find it that you're being faulty on the premise that "the tribe can have conflicting perspectives yet maintain cohesion." A lack of trust, shared understanding and beliefs, will inherently weaken a tribe. The idea for me isn't "someone should be the 'what matters oracle'" I just find it that 
>1 - Most people refuse to make meaning
>2 - The tribe weakens when there is a "meaning-maker"/prophet/social glue/"dictator"
>3 - The tribe must be kept together for survival
>4 - If the proposed "solution" of equity weakens social cohesion and unity, the supporters of the concept are rendered null by their own failure to survive

hint; everything that we do is a cult with extra steps. you're just either the kind of;
A - "Critically Cannibalist" person (under who's supervision nothing is right)
B - He who relegates the prospect of "meaning"

>you’re treating action as the primary moral currency; like the people who act are inherently more trustworthy, more reliable, more legitimate
yes. this is how I see things.
>action is proof of temperament, internal wiring, trauma tolerance, risk calculation, energy levels, and a dozen invisible factors
also yes. I would much rather be "dictated" by "a cruel dictator" than be led astray and left directionless and ultimately abandoned to my own while everyone chases their own rainbows within a supposed "democracy of fairness." If not possible, I will become the said "cruel dictator"

>because if initiative automatically grants immunity from criticism, then any leader can justify any method the moment they do something. outcome becomes righteousness
Not per se, but relatively, this is how I see the world, yes. I'm not stating that "I believe every leader out there ever is a good leader" but when I ask myself "would I want to take the role of their job? do I want to go through the layers and layers of struggle to overtake their role?" and answer myself "no. that shit is burdensome and time-consuming. I have my own goals in life. but since I'm not taking decisive action, it would be hypocritical that I should keep moaning about his/her decisions."

>it’s also why the cat example doesn’t prove what you think it does
> the fact that other people had bad solutions doesn’t mean your solution was morally clean
sure. but it was the cleanest solution presented that was willingly enforced by an active agent. its de facto the only solution, that survived the physical reality of life. anyone dabbling on the "what-ifs" of realities they themselves refused to fight for are simply weaponizing abstract thinking to bargain for power they never grabbed to begin with. I consider this a bad faith of modus. I would not apply it to those leading me, nor would I heed to it when I am leading.

>criticism becomes invalid unless the critic has performed the same actions at the same risk level
yes. so long as you cannot provide the means to prevent someone from tending to theft, you may not judge them for stealing. do something to create a better opportunity for them first, lest don't speak at all.

>the person who acts still has to stay answerable to the people who didn’t
>not because those people are "better," but because power inherently blinds the one who holds it
I will disagree with this on the basis of my personal experiences. When given the "choice for democracy" people will suggest you become a martyr who demands nothing and has no power. Then when given the power to "lead" they will most probably get bored, start chasing novelty, abandon the tribe, cause severe harm to all its components because you've adhered to the demands of someone who never seized the power to begin with. 

Once again, this doesn't mean I don't judge myself. I judge myself deeply and as often as I can, and solely because I cannot trust those not in charge to make the "fair decisions" they claim to make. A democracy is a system to relegate the responsibility of decision-making. The populus says "we only voted", the congressman says "we were representing the people" the general says "we only followed orders."

at the end of the day, who ate the nuke? the guys across the garden wall. at the end of the day, if I was on the other side of the wall, I would see no "democracy" or this trail of precision engineered lack of accountability. I would consider all complacent people equally responsible for the action and take a resentment for them.

>groups hold together because everyone keeps the right to speak
>even when they weren’t the one who stepped forward first
the very etymology of the word "leader" comes from the verb "to lead" which inherently means to be the one at the front of the pack. The strongest is delegated to this position, and they make the unquestion decisions, for two reasons;

>1 - You are brunted into the position against your will because constant playfighting proved that you are the most competent defender of the tribe
>2 - you are NOT going to throw yourself firstmost into the flames just because some jackass sitting in the back shouted "BE FAIR, DUDE!"
this is evolutionary logic.
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>megidochan/homestuck thread derailed into communism disscussion
>>6956
though I should add to this;
You're not "free to dictate" in the "job of" meaning-making. Consider it motherhood. Your job isn't to jump the gun and say "do what I say!" your job is to see the personal needs of everyone around, blend them, then synthesize a counter-offer to the collective that doesn't fuck anyone up, doesn't neglect anyone, but doesn't give anyone total freedom. That is how you "social glue." Your job is to calculate, and act like you "made your choices." (because you have to tell people that "their meaning" was inherent, not "created by yourself to satiate their emotional needs")
>>6957
the OP image was begging for that to happen regardless of intent
>>6957
HSG was born under the star of derailment (nobody wants to talk about "Homestuck")
>>6954
I think meaning is made by being a conscious being regardless of whether it is an action or if the person is passive and doing nothing. It's part of the intellectual process of reasoning, you search for meaning in the same way you think. To me the processes are ultimately rooted in the same act of being conscious. Meaning is individually realized. Finding meaning through justifying it to a crowd has a completely different reason for being than finding meaning in finding origami fun, neither necessarily require the other to exist, but as social beings we have a tendency to want to share. So the made up dilemma of wanting to share but others not finding the same joy in an act is found.
I don't know what it is you're talking about and that's all I care to say.
>>6956
>I find it that you're being faulty on the premise that "the tribe can have conflicting perspectives yet maintain cohesion
It's possible so long as intellectual conflict is relegated to the background and behavioral cohesion is treated as the essential component of the community. You can disagree with others but acting in a way that's not consistent with expectations is punished. Any other social group would have to be incredibly small to accommodate people acting erratically and without internal consistency while still being on speaking terms because each of them could theoretically tolerate and understand the other through having a shared social context. If there's no trust and if trust is broken then no such group would form. 

Why is action a moral currency? I can only see this as true if you're in a religious context. Someone who fasts regularly, abstains from sin, and treats others fairly would have a deeper understanding of the Christian faith, and people might respect him for it. I suppose in a competitive context where people have to prove themselves in order to have an actual opinion, this would be most true. 

>so long as you cannot provide the means to prevent someone from tending to theft
You imprison them if they're adults or you try to teach them to not steal if they're kids.
>>6966
>Someone who fasts regularly, abstains from sin, and treats others fairly would have a deeper understanding of the Christian faith, and people might respect him for it
Well, it'd be closer to a signifier of internal alignment with the Christian faith, but it shouldn't be viewed as anything deeper, or mistaken for actual alignment. Christianity already has a deep understanding of the dangers of taking the sign for the referant. This reply chain has turned away from communism, or rather anti-capitalism, and turned into something about social cohesion and meaning. It's more of a question of cultural conditions and religious beliefs.
>>6966
>It's possible so long as intellectual conflict is relegated to the background and behavioral cohesion is treated as the essential component of the community. You can disagree with others but acting in a way that's not consistent with expectations is punished. Any other social group would have to be incredibly small to accommodate people acting erratically and without internal consistency while still being on speaking terms because each of them could theoretically tolerate and understand the other through having a shared social context. If there's no trust and if trust is broken then no such group would form. 

I won't disagree with this. I don't personally think a "unified group contributes to everythin they all can in perfect cohesion" but I do think a functional role creates its internal dichotomies and roles and everyone contributes what they find most appropriate for the group/from themselves. Self correction and communications come in when one person finds the contributions of another non-worthy or harmful, but the prospect of judgement in itself is a hard thing to decide because "doing the right thing" ≠ "doing the thing that gets instantly appreciated by everyone" in my opinion. 

>Why is action a moral currency?
simple enough. Why are we here?
>Marzi made the board
>We appreciate its community
I will ultimately have more respect for marzi for providing the grounds for something that caters to my needs than anyone who might ever criticize him. Even if they're right. Because the logic is as tracks;
>How much do I need this thing?
>Is the critique ultimately offering ME a better alternative?
>Is the critique ultimately offering themselves to take on the duty?
hence; the status quo that provides the current, functioning grounds for the needs to be met, and its providers, are always to be shown gratitude for than anyone who uses a hypothetical non existant alternative to criticize it. Just not TOO much that they get power-mad. 

>You imprison them if they're adults or you try to teach them to not steal if they're kids.
Yes but this is symptomatic treatment. You've failed the task of integrating the thief, and you've ultimately failed the task of making [NOT STEALING] more profitable than [STEALING]. This is a capital harvest system that is designed to keep punishing people to keep the uh. Prison/Justice Industrial Complex eternally running on a treadmill. You create the conditions for someone to "misbehave" and when they "misbehave" you "punish" them into a system that continues to exploit them, but you've been "relegated the responsibility of the theft that 'they chose to commit'" while we blindside the 82 prior socioeconomical factors you've (as the system) have been refusing to even admit that exists to be adressed. 

I personally think this is why the U.S. horribly fails to reincorporate people addicted to fentanyl for example. Compare it to what Spain does with their junkies. They create a social archy that creates layers of SOCIAL pressure that redirects people gently, reduces harm and ultimately focuses on reintegrating people (even at the point where they're ultimate junkies who can't quit (by letting them be junkies in their own privacy while maintaining functional lives)) and only opts for punitive action when the individual is shown against all effort, their willingness to keep trying to cause societal harm.

>>6967
>This reply chain has turned away from communism, or rather anti-capitalism
I don't think it has, we're just dissecting the specifics of what "a communism" or what "an anti-capitalism" should look like, only within the microscopic levels of what we consider to be moral or not, but they're still connected.
>>6968
>I do think a functional role
sorry, functional TRIBE* I was napping I just woke up do excuse my inability to speak
>>6968
>I will ultimately have more respect for marzi for providing the grounds for something that caters to my needs than anyone who might ever criticize him
I wouldn't because I value internal concistency and the board owner being in the wrong presents a moral dilemma to me as a participant of the world. Do I abide by evil or do I not? The answer is no. Any other answer would require a different set of religious beliefs. The question then becomes to what extent do I act, what is in my capacity, and what solutions are available or knowable to me. Not acting is morally compromising myself and allowing for others to come to evil.

Rehabilitating an adult is beyond my capacity and due to my weakness I have to rely on systems I do not have control over. This is a shared communal evil that we inflict on thieves due to our collective inability to stop thievery in its entirety. There is no better solution that I am able to perform, so it is what is defaulted to. At no step am I under the pretense that it is the most morally justifiable act.
>>6971
I do see your perspective, I've been there myself. I've ultimately grown weary of assigning myself "the cosmic arbiter of justice" at every chance so I've decided to settle with what seems most stable to me and support them and focus on what I want to achieve in life. 

I don't necessarily think "critics of marzi shouldn't exist" I just personally think that there should always be some actors that ALSO present the "regardless, you are appreciated" argument. Too much scrutiny breaks people, too little spoils them.

>Rehabilitating an adult is beyond my capacity and due to my weakness I have to rely on systems I do not have control over. This is a shared communal evil that we inflict on thieves due to our collective inability to stop thievery in its entirety. There is no better solution that I am able to perform, so it is what is defaulted to. At no step am I under the pretense that it is the most morally justifiable act.

That's fair. You're not responsible for the justice system. And I don't technically live in the U.S. that I should care to do more than to analyze it from afar, lol.
>>6972
I don't view it as an assignment, it's just a natural aspect of being conscious.
>>6973
Yes but ultimately it starts to get lonely, and tiresome, and weary. Even though I see your perspective and struggle, I probably wouldn't share the same exact morals and, in the case, we would probably be still arguing endlessly. My biggest struggle was in the "doing things no one wants to and then receiving nothing but criticism for it" aspect so I've decided I'd try being the change I want to see and (even though I'm often still a full time asshole) be more supportive of the people who care to struggle the struggle for change. This is why I find that a well-meaning but-not-spoiling-emotional-whims community, or at least person is necessary to exist in some part of a system. When multiple people including myself have polar opposite views, we all just start tearing each other apart. But so long as someone in the middle (that I try appointing myself as) provides appreciation, validation and support for the people doing their best (and not harming the cohesion) then we can collectively function some more. Emotional wellbeing is a resource too. It runs out if not taken care of. I don't think this part is a "disagreement with your worldview" I just think it's a different role.
>>6973
>>6974
well without the autism, that is, to say, your efforts are appreciated :)
>>6956
>but people don't work in binary like that…

you're aiming at the right target but shooting with the assumption that most folks even *want* to hold contradictory truths at once. they don't. they want comfort. they want narrative. they want a story where the villain is obvious and the hero is whoever validates their priors. pretending everyone is chomping at the bit to "co-create meaning" is just idealism wearing a cardigan.

>the tribe negotiates meaning

sure, in a perfect ecosystem where everyone has equal stakes, equal memory, equal grit. but in real life the tribe is held together by whatever gravity keeps the least stable members from drifting into entropy. cohesion isn't some pure committee process; half of it is people defaulting to whoever stops the slow bleed of uncertainty. so yeah, when nobody takes the mantle, the tribe rots. when someone does take it, the tribe pays for it. survival tax either way.

>1 - people refuse to make meaning
>2 - prophets weaken tribes
>3 - tribe must survive
>4 - equity fails under pressure

this is basically the tragic geometry of groups. most people don't want to author reality because authorship means responsibility when it collapses. prophets absolutely destabilize systems because their entire job is to introduce a narrative that wasn't collectively agreed on. but without someone doing that, the tribe's window of coherence shrinks to nothing. it's a contradiction you don't solve, you balance by force or charisma or fear or shared trauma. the nice liberal fantasy where everyone holds hands around a bonfire of "shared context" dissolves instantly the moment scarcity or threat enters the scene.

>everything is a cult with extra steps

honestly, yeah. the only difference is the flavor of ritual and whether the high priest wears a suit or a robe or a hoodie with a podcast.

>action is the moral currency

this is where people get squeamish because once you admit that, the whole moral scaffolding of modern ethics tilts. if action is proof of temperament, and temperament is proof of capability, then people who don't act are moral non-participants. that's harsh but it's true in the physics of outcomes. you don't fix a collapsed bridge by debating steel ethics. you fix it by swinging a hammer.

but that scares people because it implies that initiative implicitly generates authority. and no one wants to live in a world where anyone who moves first gets to set the frame. they want to critique leaders from the comfort of non-action without paying the cost of stepping in themselves.

>the cleanest solution is the one someone actually did

this is brutal but it's how the world works. reality doesn't grade on hypothetical ethics. it grades on results. if people don't like the path that was taken, they had their chance to open a different door. paralysis is not a moral objection; it's just paralysis.

>criticism becomes invalid unless you can do the job

people hate hearing this because it strips them of the illusion that opinions confer power. but yeah, if you can't stabilize the system better than the person you're critiquing, your critique is trivia. this doesn't mean leaders should be unanswerable. it just means the value of judgment is proportional to the risk you're willing to carry.

>power blinds

it does, but so does powerlessness. the powerless hallucinate purity. the powerful hallucinate competence. both are distortions.

>democracy diffuses responsibility

that's the design. it lets everyone feel moral while no one actually holds the steering wheel. people demand fairness only until responsibility is handed to them, then they drop it like a hot pan. it's easier to moralize from the stands than to be the one who signs the order that gets people hurt.

>leadership is evolutionary logic

yeah, you don't pick the person who shouts the most about fairness. you pick the one who doesn't flinch. the one who doesn't get rattled when the tribe's in chaos. the one who keeps moving when everyone else is still negotiating what the word "move" should mean. nobody throws themselves onto the pyre because someone in the back row appeals to philosophical consistency. survival picks the leader long before anyone gets to vote.

the uncomfortable truth is that stability always has a cost, and someone always pays it. the question is never "should there be a leader" but "who's willing to take the blow that leadership requires, and who's willing to shut up while they do it."

and groups fall apart the moment too many people want the privileges of safety without the burden of choosing a direction.
>>6974
It'd be nice I could link to music but but the higurashi ed "why, or why not" mirrors my feelings on the "weariness" of being self-consistent. I find being honest and true to my beliefs to be liberating. This isn't to say I don't see the value of well-being, but I'm not intellectually equipped to deal with other people's emotional turmoil. For the same reason I don't have much to say in reply to you. 
>>6975
This will come off as me being an asshole but I don't exist in order to get other people's approval. I do value other viewpoints, though, so someone actively trying to to find a middle ground is valuable.
>>6976
You're refusing to take responsibility for your actions by blaming everyone who didn't impulsively and carelessly act this is just shifting the blame onto other people. You're not the sole participant and being the first to act merely sets a precedent, good or bad. Is there situations where acting is better than not acting? When no one knows any better, sure. Sometimes people will act using incorrect beliefs as their justification, like trying to save someone with a spine injury out of a car that's crashed because he thinks the care will explode, worsening the injury and causing irreparable damage. Was he right in his righteous unflinching act in cause irreparable damage because he thought he was saving a life from a non-existent danger? Are we able to judge whether he truly knew he was going to cause harm but used the flimsy excuse of movie logic as a coverup? These are stupid questions that shouldn't be considered when making political decisions, since the nature of being part of a polity is having access to communal knowledge, and we're able to judge what happened, who is culpable, and what is a reasonable response using past precedent as a guide, or reason out a new decision, that will later be judged by others, if no precedent is found. 

Alternatively i think the common communist Chinese sentiment of viewing mass murder as a reasonable compromise to positive social change might be more reasonable under your worldview, but they base their truth on the results of actions, rather than on who acted first.
I think you're trying to frame yourself as a victim because you view yourself as endlessly taking on burdens of responsibility and then disliking it when other people dislike you, so you blame your incompetence on them, refusing to let other people take control even on a conceptual level. Which is just plain dishonesty, writing it out doesn't render it truthful.
homestuck
ho_es_uck
Great pilosofy guise but none of you seem to know know what communism is. I want to point out that a few select people forcing the working masses at gunpoint to share for the sake of equality is from a Marxist perspective pretty absurd.
In other words STUDY FIRSTHAND THEORETICAL WRITINGS INSTEAD OF BASING YOUR OPINIONS ON VULGAR DECEPTIONS FROM CAPITALIST NEWS SOURCES
Marxists.org is a cool place. Read some of chairman Mao's works, he is simple to understand and his contributions are highly important.
AVOID watching hakim & friends and developing a parasocial relationship to him ffs
holes*uck
Milky Holmestuck
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>>6980
>Read some of chairman Mao's works
lol no thanks. how about you read this instead: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ziq-eradicate-left-unity
I'm glad I don't have any of an anarchist mental trappings.
>>6980
How do you get into homestuck? I've seen images of it but it's just grey people.
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>>6987
Don't.
Oh, this is an unironic commie thread, huh. 


NEVER DOUBT SECRET AGENT ORANGE.
>>6988
I need you to tell me more.
>>6977
>but I'm not intellectually equipped to deal with other people's emotional turmoil. For the same reason I don't have much to say in reply to you. 
I get that tbh. This is kinda the "you don't really discuss much when you come to agree with each other" point of my thesis. I think it's just a personal preference or maybe different people's different talents. I always thought about "is my brother the smarter one for being into technology related works or am I the smarter one for being able to create art?" it kinda seems like we both did this for a good while. then we came to agree "not to apples and oranges" I THINK I'm good at making people feel heard and special and appreciated so I work with that instead,

>This will come off as me being an asshole but I don't exist in order to get other people's approval.
I get that as well. probably feels better when you realize you're not as isolated as you might come to believe in a vacuum tho! you do seem like a nice and sweet person honestly
>>6991
It's unfunny, boring, and lacks purpose.
>>6985
Would be insightful if not for the gross overusage of the term "fascist" and other silly libleftisms.
Hi, this is Dr. Megidochan speaking.
>>6995
we d0nt talk ab0ut m****0chan
>>6977
oh shit I forgot yeah do please send the music if you want I don't mind listening to it :)
>>6976
>you're aiming at the right target but shooting with the assumption that most folks even *want* to hold contradictory truths at once
no disagreement on that. I think people have the TENDENCY to hold contradictory truths tho. I say that because I feel this in regards to myself. I figure no one is "all too special" OR "all too stupid" so my conclusion is usually that;
>we probably all hold some contradictory truths at all times, without the general awareness for it

>they want comfort
true
>they want narrative
also true
>they want a story where the villain is obvious and the hero is whoever validates their priors
I think this varies depending on the person's upbringing in the sense that people's preferences for "the narrative" varies. but I don't disagree that this is the common preference.

>pretending everyone is chomping at the bit to "co-create meaning" is just idealism wearing a cardigan
I think this is an inherent bias we might have. Not judging YOU on it, I don't think every individual creates their meaning. But at the end of the day everyone has "their meaning." Some people "create" theirs, others who can't prefer opting in for others' creations.

>sure, in a perfect ecosystem where everyone has equal stakes, equal memory, equal grit. but in real life the tribe is held together by whatever gravity keeps the least stable members from drifting into entropy. cohesion isn't some pure committee process; half of it is people defaulting to whoever stops the slow bleed of uncertainty. so yeah, when nobody takes the mantle, the tribe rots. when someone does take it, the tribe pays for it. survival tax either way.
true. I don't disagree tbh. I just think "a prophet" isn't as linear of an idea as we take it. A "prophet" if you ask me isn't just about someone coming down to say "god sent me to speak to you." My personal opinion is that "a god" is whatever "you find meaning in" and "a prophet" is basically any kind of social figure that can garner a group of people under the "what we're doing here is meaningful, ok? good. now let's work." A scientist is "a prophet" to me too. Or an artist, or a chan admin. The medium may change but the function remains same to me. Gather people of various talents to co-operate. Motherhood.

>this is basically the tragic geometry of groups. most people don't want to author reality because authorship means responsibility when it collapses
accurate
>prophets absolutely destabilize systems because their entire job is to introduce a narrative that wasn't collectively agreed on
debatable. I say this is debatable because I personally don't feel like it's fair for me to argue that "people are completely malleable" but neither can I say "there are universal evils who are completely manipulative." I feel like if someone can convince me into believing something, including myself, even when/if this is a lie, this isn't their/my sole fault. When you believe something (even if its a lie) you're inherently doing this to fulfill your emotional needs. Because we ALL need to believe in something. Doesn't have to be religion.

>it's a contradiction you don't solve, you balance by force or charisma or fear or shared trauma
I don't see it exactly in those terms (they do feel a bit crude to describe 'the human experience') but I don't disagree with the mechanics. I find this to be a more "communal experience" than just X amount of charisma/force/fear etc. but we don't disagree on the core idea.

>honestly, yeah. the only difference is the flavor of ritual and whether the high priest wears a suit or a robe or a hoodie with a podcast.
lol. also true.

>this is where people get squeamish because once you admit that, the whole moral scaffolding of modern ethics tilts. if action is proof of temperament, and temperament is proof of capability, then people who don't act are moral non-participants. that's harsh but it's true in the physics of outcomes. you don't fix a collapsed bridge by debating steel ethics. you fix it by swinging a hammer.
Part true but not entirely true. This is where "meaning making" comes in. One person is better at hunting. The other is better at convincing him why he's hunting. When we start living in an isolated vacuum where we don't share "our things" our perspectives of the world, I think, innately starts reverting to this cynicism of "no one gets my ideas. no one SEES my ideas. I'm all alone." And this is why I personally see "prophets" or "motherhood" or whatever you call it very important. I don't think every leader is a good leader, but I do think that people do need leaders. I don't think implicity is as we think of it though. This is where the complexities come in. I don't think it's honest to say that anyone ever can be completely complicit (even if they're literally doing nothing) but I do feel like the people who lack self-reflection and analysis tend to not understand their impulse/desires and this can lead to unintended harm in the name of good intent, which, I find worse than harm caused by selfish intents almost. Very unrelated but still, if someone hurts you the least you'd expect is the decency that, they do it for a greater purpose.

>but that scares people because it implies that initiative implicitly generates authority
yes but also not necessarily. The thing about taking action is that you can't measure it in a metric system. sometimes, it REALLY is better to NOT take action. If you can believe it. Call it what you will patience tolerance acceptance whatever. Sometimes you can't fix things by forcing more actions onto it. You can't always agent-agent your way out of things, you try, fail, then shit gets better on its own. Not using this to "argue against the importance of agency" but selective application is the important part.

>that's the design. it lets everyone feel moral while no one actually holds the steering wheel. people demand fairness only until responsibility is handed to them, then they drop it like a hot pan. it's easier to moralize from the stands than to be the one who signs the order that gets people hurt.
true. this is why I like the idea of "playfighting" and whatnot. I personally hate the idea of causing permanent harm to anyone and I feel regret over it when it happens so I try not to unless absolutely necessary. I just feel like we (as all people) have the tendency to kind of "try doing something" to "see if we can do it" but only come to realize how hurtful we can be towards others when we see the results of it. not everyone cares about it, sure, or, not everyone cares to reflect or even is capable of understanding it. but I do like the prospect of oneself (or others) knowing when not to take it too far. not that this was a "counterpoint" just my perspective

>the uncomfortable truth is that stability always has a cost, and someone always pays it. the question is never "should there be a leader" but "who's willing to take the blow that leadership requires, and who's willing to shut up while they do it."
I don't disagree. I think, honestly, we could probably argue that even the idea of "leadership" isn't as monopolar as we might think. I won't deny power imbalances, dynamics and exchanges, but we do also kinda need everyone on the same page in order to co-operate too. I feel like there isn't really some sorts of "ultimate power" but I don't mean that in an idealistic way. I just feel like money or political power is one way of measuring it because its the most present one we look at. But pockets exist. we're inside a pocket right here. yknow?
>>6978
NTZ but I do see your point. We CAN make faulty judgements on the basis of "I need to act quickly" if we don't appropriatel assess situations, I wouldn't disagree with this. That's a good hypothetical I suppose but we do have a common basis on this (one that you're not obliged to agree to). The general idea how we judge someone is based on;

>1 - the results of their actions as we perceive them
>2 - intent if we perceive any
>3 - did they reduce or add harm?
>4 - what would happen if they didn't act?

So let's follow your example;
>1 - the man acting out of film logics caused irreperable damage
>2 - this was done with good intent (which doesn't negate responsibility completely, but alleviates them)
>3 - whether this reduced or added harm is context relative
>4 - what would happen if they didn't act, is, also context relative

to assume the man here is at COMPLETE fault is wrong. The general recommended response to an emergency is;
>1 - probably fucking call 911 (or don't. up to your test levels(lol sorry))
>2 - describe the situation over the phone/take immediate action if you have appropriate knowledge
>3 - proceed as the situation unfolds
Not trying to play any "but this is how the law works" card here but the realistic conclusion here is, most obviously; the final verdict is extremely context relevant. We don't know if the man had a phone, or if he could think to call 911, or if he was simply being an asshole who refused to do nothing out of pure cowardice (but, if we're being honest here, we can't deny the probability that there are people out there who go "not my problem" and walk away, which is also an abhorrent thing in my opinion)

the crux of what I'm trying to say here is that being informed is important, but being willing to take appropriate action and having the confidence in oneself, too, is important.

>common communist Chinese sentiment of viewing mass murder as a reasonable compromise
yeah this is funny but also like.
>hitler was bad for [the big bad thing we don't talk about]
>the global backlash to this action resulted in the creation of [a certain nation]
>the [certain nation] is now [acting out the same shit] on [another nation]
>does this justify hitler?
>does it villify those who funded the creation of [that certain nation]?
>just because certain political parties do [what we consider to be bad] does this necessarily mean they're evil?
>when the underdog is inherently forced into taking guerilla warfare, can we really blame the imperial forces (if we're gonna be fair-fair) for "committing mass murder" against a weaponized entity who intentionally weaponizes the ambiguous fluidity of their identities?
I'm not saying "mass murder is reasonable." But I think this is a funnily accurate example of "things are easier to argue on when they're abstract."
I don't have a personal opinion on [the certain nation] or [their victims]. I did spend a good amount of time trying to develop an opinion on it. Both sides seemed to have their good reasons. I decided it would be the most reasonable thing that I don't really "pick a side" like a moron tho.
>>7001
I firmly believe that you should act even if you have a limited amount of information if the situation requires it, and the fault in the case of someone trying to save someone's life is realistically no ones, but the harm done is nonetheless real, and the people who've caused the harm needs to consider himself responsible on some level. I find the idea of someone being the sole moral agent because he's committed himself to an action when there are other people involved to be ridiculous, and it speaks more to a disdain of other people than it does of someone being action-inclined.
>>6997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmaDRgdcwcY
>>7003
Very good. Very sweet song. I'll be adding it to a playlist I've been 𝘴𝘭𝘰𝘰𝘰𝘸𝘭𝘺 building. have this in return;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxbMPEWg6OI
should land a good exchange. I think you might like it. Thank you :) I'll head and paint for the day and probably go to sleep afterwards, after I reply to the other zinon as well. I don't want anyone to feel ignored or left out or kept waiting so!
>>7002
okay BUT ask yourself THIS;
do YOU find it hotter when someone ASKS your opinion OR imposes theirs?
>>7005
When someone asks me because I leave when I'm forced to do anything.
>>7004
Revelry isn't an emotion I feel as positive, it feels like agitation. It's not something I'd intentionally go out of my way to listen to.
>>6980
political theory should be considered an oxymoron
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My wife grew up in Soviet Russia, but I don't think she liked it very much...
>>6993
So like a VN? It feels very nerdy, but in a way I find mildly amusing.
>>7010
"We" kindly recommend Raging Loop or 428 before Homestuck.
>>7014
Why?
>>7015
Because a large portion of the later comic was devoted to spite for his own characters and fans.
>>7017
But why these particular games? What's homestuck about?
>>7019
Raging Loop: Time bullshit; Meta bullshit; Spider bitches; Mythical "roles", bouts of edgy violence
428: "Choose your own adventure" perspective jumping between a disparate cast as the scenario crescendos and everyone crosses paths (Also J-HUMOR)

Well, if you're really set on reading the output of a cynical ojisan who nevertheless writes cute girls, I'd have a personal recommendation to make... :fun:
>>7020
I'm mostly interesting in understanding the cultural influence of homestuck since it's something that I've always known about but have never seen it influence anything outside of the creation of art.
Not even when speaking about homestuck is the topic about homestuck.
>>7021
>the cultural influence of homestuck
There is none, essentially. Besides masturbatory fan adventures that have zero (0) artistic value, it has inspired and led to nothing notable. The Homestuck fandom is astoundingly uncreative compared to say, bronies.

It was essentially fandom unto itself and the dynamics seen in it can be seen in countless things picked up by Twitter or Tumblr (look at all the gay bullshit in the Voltron reboot, FNaF, TADC, etc, etc) It's not as unique and epoch-defining as jaded Homestuck fans will tell you.  It's also really not that interesting.  Again, bronies were a more interesting phenomenon. You can say that the creator created the comic with his ear to the ground and that's "interesting" to look at but not when the end result is what it is. It's also not worth the effort to try and piece intent together with the rumblings of the fandom and induce how that affected the comic. It is usually just plain contrarianism. 

Ignore the previous Megidozen, it started way before the "later half" of the comic. 
>>7022
As it should be, Homestuck is ultimately very boring. We can talk about things from an abstract perspective to make the contents of the comic more interesting because we care about why they're there and not what's actually there but that fundamentally diminishes its value as art because it creates an irreconcilably large disconnect between those two things. 

It captured the minds of teenage girls because Mystery Box writing and shipping but it's not some cultural touchstone. It has intrigue because you're unfamiliar with it. But it's nothing on the inside. It should be forgotten completely.
The main adage to discussing Homestuck is "It's far more difficult to explain why something has no meaning than it is to create a bunch of meaningless things."
>>7007
You know I DO get the urge to bite you. Very tempting. I want to take that intimacy avert nature of yours, BREAK it down, get you all soft and sweet and attached, just to prove that I can do it. I just feel like I shouldn't do it because it will ultimately be a waste of both our time and, probably, result in at least one party getting harmed. But you are tempting. But this is an animal impulse and I mustn't take it any further than merely naming it.
>>6933
which posts are those?
>>109
>>110
>>7030
Thread, not sitewide
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Congrats, you managed to get 99 (100?) posts today. Historical number.
>>7038
HELL YEAHHHHHHG CRACKING THE BOTTLES THIS MARZICHAN MONDAY

◆ A burnt smell hangs ◆
>>7028
I don't know who you are or why you'd feel that way.
>>7023
What about it made it into something so popular? I don't think you're describing it accurately. Is there something about the fans that you dislike?
>>7040
It breaks my heart seeing how un-feeling you are. Someone who can present good faith arguments already willing to be vulnerable shouldn't deny themselves the ability to feel sweet. That's like doing the uncomfortable part and then not even taking the "good bit." It's backwards! I want to hold you
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>>7048
It doesn't enter into my mind as something I would want and I don't pursue it as a reward, so when it's presented to me it's not unlike someone genuinely laughing at a joke I didn't make. It's disorientating and bothersome.
>>7058
is this a way of saying "I get too flustered please don't be affectionate towards me"?
>>7028
I'd kill to have a woman say this to me
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>>7071
No
>>7073
Is Flight Warp Star trans?
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>>7079
... "Merely a pervert."


I want a BK long chicken really bad but still fasting
>>7082
Haven't had those in many years. Used to like getting high and ordering a bunch of those on Tuesday evenings when they went on discount, sometimes with some little shitty dollar menu burgers too. Spicy mcchickens are good in their own way. Double whopper is better than everything at McDonald's though.
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>>7082
I'm gonna get myself an $8 mullvad vpn subscription and start providing very unpleasant content for megidochan if this request is not fulfilled within the next 24 hours
>>7106
>$8
the people actually annihilating half of the internet rn with proxies are doing it for pennies using VPS' in singapore 
the solution is to use banlists to ban all of south east asia. full-stop.
>>7108
yeah well whatever works. we ARE growing this place and actions MUST be taken one way or another
add a per post captcha too. I apologize for the unsolicited overhead
>>7111
well thanks I guess. the advertisements had nothing to do with the admin team here if that cools your heels
>>7106
Very stable genius.
But the 'p spammers use those same services, so it's bigger than any one bedouin

but it's something like this
https://github.com/X4BNet/lists_vpn
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>>7114
good good. the marzichanvertisements will only be growing in volume as time goes on so we need it
>>7113
>well thanks I guess. the advertisements had nothing to do with the admin team here if that cools your heels
yeah I saw one earlier on another board, I think it's 'arty doing it because they want to invite raiders.

it's like what halfchan is doing right now to fight raiders: range banning half of the known world which only leaves the raiders untouched because they don't use the services that they keep banning.
>>7114
These VPN lists won't include residential VPNs if I'm not mistaken. You would need something like ipsum lists https://github.com/stamparm/ipsum to even see those as they're used for ongoing attacks on other servers.
>>7118
This shit barely works you either have jannies on 24/7 or add some sort of filtering for new IPs that's it
>>7115
>>7109
don't go carelessly advertising this site on any random board you find, please. you will bring lots of trouble and work for the staff
>>7121
If you weren't running vanilla ahh jschan with no captcha this wouldn't be a problem
>>7121
Can't I at least do it SELECTIVELY? can we NOT at least bully the smaller fish for OUR growth? it should be tolerable. please?
we SHOULD have at least 3 people more than willing to janitor around the board. trust trust
oh to hell with it. I WILL be advertising marzichan every 24 hours on several imageboards that seem suitable to me. you've been warned. go make sure we CAN deal with the shitheads. go get some fucking janitors, I'm not gonna take the blame if you don't.
>>7124
>>7128
>proposing solutions to the problems you are deliberately creating
how petulant
>>7129
yes I AM you cucklord pissant. This place needs to grow, SOMEONE has to fucking advertise it. Go jerk yourself off to your pathetic "I can't do nothing because I know nothing."

The data is provided, the faults are proven. You take countermeasures, you keep going. go fuck yourself
>>7128
jesus christ can you just fuck off? you've been given so many second chances and it's never enough, you just can't fucking behave even when people try and get along with you the best they can
>>7131
YOU fucking provide me what YOU are going to start doing, doing IMMEDIATELY, to grow this place, I'll fuck RIGHT off,
>>7132
>>7130
>>7128
>>7124
jesus christ stop being such an incessant shitheel just because you're bored with your life
>>7133
cry about it. this conversation is over until someone else comes up with a better plan that convinces me to not follow through with mine.
i like to pick my nose
>>7134
you claim to be self aware but i think you're lying to yourself. you're crazy and you can't control yourself.
>>7136
>I have a possibly messy plan that I already have provided the countermeasures to make it least painful as possible
>it will at the very least contribute some growth at an irrefutable level
>you are an utmost homosexual who has contributed nothing but housewife complaintery and bitching to this board
>>7137
>I already have provided the countermeasures to make it least painful as possible
dude you are having a manic episode or some shit. how do you reflect on your impulsive actions and not realize that you're an animal making a mess? sharty raiders now think marzimin is turkish because of you. if you actually value the quality and growth of this place, then you should stop posting and never return.
>>7138
>sharty raiders now think marzimin is turkish because of you
then tell them he's not me, you genius
but you won't because you've admitted numerous times that you get off to behaving like a psycho. whatever man. im not even gonna read whatever shit you just typed above this post. as a final word, i suggest putting a name on so my filter list can get some use
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Chikusho!
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You know a site's gonna have a bright future ahead when 99% of the activity is the admin whining
>>7142
i don't even think the admin posts that often
>>7142
I'm not an admin I'm just not willing to let this place rot in irrelevance because we have bitchy losers who want to do nothing and an admin too considerate and sweet to do something
>>7142
>everyone who rightfully calls me out for being venomous is the admin!!!1
>>7131
He probably literally was the most recent spammer by the way, it's hard to imagine anyone else low IQ and uncultured enough to spam with 2018 smug pepe images and that one gore image everyone has already seen
>>7149
WHERE
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>>7128
So, you're responsible for this?
Why? Why you did that? Nobody likes unwanted advertising, especially like this. You doomed us all.
>>7164
is that on the chon? was making an archive of that just now and was going to say the same thing more or less. spam already sours the mood, but it's projecting the wrong impression of this place.
>>7164
You know I REALLY don't want to drag this to unnecessary lengths but the mental retardation makes me want to reply.

>No one is doing anything
>People will only find marzichan through allchans
>The growth will remain as the same zero rate
>I go out and make "unwanted advertisements"
>People will now see that marzichan exists
>if 10% of those who see it check the chan
>and 10% of those who check it like it
>this will contribute a net positive of 1%
>which is a non-zero alternative compared to everyone else's "we want to do absolutely nothing" options

I may get MAD, I may ultimately feel INSULTED and underappreciated but I will NOT stand for some fucking cowards trying to talk down on me over something they cannot mathematically disprove. YOU are DISMISSED.
MATH, speak MATH because I DO NOT GIVE TWO SLIDING SHITS HOW INSECURE I MADE YOU FEEL OVER YOUR PASSIVITY you MAGGOTS
>>7128
>>7130
Please, delete your spam. You're gonna make everything worse.
>>7168
probide receipts that you're dedicating irreversible money effort or time to do better advertising then
https://archive.is/XsMEe
>>7166
"doing nothing" is better than what you're pulling. you are poorly representing this place elsewhere on top of making an ass of yourself here.
>>7170
What shits should I give about your opinion? who the FUCK are you that I care?
>>7166
>which is a non-zero alternative
Alternative? Do you realize what you have done? That's not alternative you're starting a war with everyone. Please stop all of this. Look what it caused.
fucking retard went and archived an advertisement thread to go "see? I saw the advertisement!" to my face but somehow I'm "the weird one" here, jesus christ. what are you gonna do with the archive of a thread? show it to the fucking feds? call 911?

>>7172
/digi/ advertised on here. megidochan adverTISES on here. you actually are mentally deficient aren't you?
>>7171
ditto, you're clearly unwell in the head and lack all self-awareness. if you liked this place so much, you wouldn't directly be causing a greater janitorial burden or threatening to ddos the site as you've done in the past. and frankly you don't seem like you should be posting here regardless of those issues because your attitude fucking stinks to high heaven.
>>7174
you're literally the one dude who barges into rational conversations to seek out attention for yourself like a whore then refuse to contribute to the conversation. you literally talk about self harm and use it to parasite people's attention. who are you to judge me?
>>7175
>every poster i dont like is the same person
really not helping your case about your mental well-being
>>7171
Honestly, do you give a "shits" about this imageboard. If you did you would never do that.

>>7173
Not only you mass advertised, you also send a threats! /digi/ and Megidochan weren't hostile atleast.
>>7175
>contribute to the conversation
And what are you contributing? Pain to people behind this ib?
I beg for you, stop all of this.
>>7176
>le "it wasn't me"
>I'm so smart to hide behind "anonymity" on an 8 man chan board where I'm the only one with my exact bitch attitude and endless complaining
>I am very smart
I should stop replying to you because you probably do get off on my attention and I really do find you disgusting

>>7176
>I threatened megidochan
good. it got us useful things and a new moderator willing to help out. Why didn't you vouch to become a janitor if YOU wanted to help out?
>>7178
The only "pain" is caused by the revelation of your own incompetence. We had someone spam for maybe 30 minutes. The lot of you spent more time bitching at me over a problem already solved because you're so insecure
what the FUCK was gonna happen without that banlist? Are you all so scared of your own image that you're refusing to admit that there is ultimately a reality where I DIDN'T make the threat for that banlist' source, and SOMEONE devided to spam the board using free VPNs? would you have been "happier" because I "didn't cause any pain" then? How come everyone's blind to THE CONTRIBUTION? because you're MAD at yourself, fuck off. go take it out on yourselves then. I did NOT do anything wrong. People fucking post 'P here for fucks sake. what are YOU happy being a martyr for?
>>7180
All this spam is your fault. If it wasn't you, none of this would've happened.

>>7179
Janitor? You think this is normal when people spam gore here?
Please stop all of this.
>>7182
It can be DEALT with. One new person willing to become a part of the community and contribute to it is WORTH dealing with "spammers."
>>7181
>I did NOT do anything wrong

You did. You caused useless war. It can't go like this.
>>7184
you're literally the sole contrariam here. you're once again "defending" your imagined victims that aren't in the room with us. You are the "victim", just, of other people's suffering.
>>7181
Marzichan rejects certain negative aspects of imageboard culture.
Shit that you have done is not just negative, it's fucked up.

>>7185
>you're once again "defending" your imagined victims
Entire Marzichan is a victim because of you.
>>7179
>>7181
no new banlist was applied, and no new moderators were added. what are you talking about?
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RIP
>>7187
thought mex was given moderatorship I guess. your choice still. it is ultimately dumb
>>7186
>endless emotional masturbation
>you are this this this and that
you're such a diva jesus christ. you get off on "being hurt" don't you?
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>>7185
>>7190
Again, please stop all of this.
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Juices everywhere
do this; compare engagement metrics from pre late-september to late-september through now. I'm DEAD curious how much "insufferable evil" I must've been contributing that I can bet my soul the total activity must've irrefutably gone up in my presence.

do it. give the math. you have the website. you have the dashboard. DO IT.
>>7179
the amount of projection in this post is too damn high. i consistently post from the same connection and i am doubting you can say the same considering youve mentioned trying to force this board to use a whitelist in the past.
>engagement metrics
the sort of attention you are bringing to this board has so far been worse than if you hadnt done anything at all. get real.
>>7193
Growth for growth's sake isn't in the spirit of Marzichan if it's in the wrong direction
>>7195
hold on while I do the calculus
>>7193
Up? With illegal spam? You're truly skitzo.
>>7193
you just make us look bad, frankly.
the site will advertise in the way it wishes, when it feels ready to.

it's dumb to use the excuse "well if I didn't do it somebody else would've done it" because communities like this are dependent on assumptions about their threat model and level of risk to begin with. any anonymous IB that doesn't lock down posting to an obnoxious degree would be vulnerable to a dedicated spammer
>>7196
Haaa...
Well, I'm planning to make a thanksgiving thread just as soon as the block is lifted. That'll give visitors a little more structure than "hey, ur gay, come to /plaza/"
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And what are gonna do with all of this?
Anons hate us, we are getting spammed.
Nothing we can do.
The only thing to do is to create a post adressing all this shit.
>>7200
And apologize
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>>7200
Sex with garfield
>>7200
>>7201
it's not that bad as long as the advertisement person doesn't keep doing this. one or two annoying ad posts is whatever, doing it over and over for a sustained period would be pretty bad
>>7203
He spammed 6 ibs already.
>>7204
6?! ugh
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>>7142
agugu
>>7205
Possibly more
>>7205
six seven
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>>7194
alright baby boo I'm gonne give you the math here.

post from 20/09/2025;
>>5943
numbered 5943. time since; 2 months. total increase; 1251
1251 / 61 = 20.5

that was 2 months. now let's find a post from 20/07/2025
>>4634 dated 18/07/2025. 2 days extra time. we can still do the math.

1309 / 63 = 20.7

I have, in fact, driven engagement metrics down by a whopping 1%. incredible. Well... That is... a price to pay for the high quality content you've been getting by, superiorly, me, for free. You're welcome.
>>7203
>>7204
https://xj9k.neocities.org/
Made the xj9k listing, even... Having that much energy on a new moon is almost admirable
we just need like 72 more posts so I can claim to have contributed 1% growth tbh not that hard
>>7209
>>7210
>That is... a price to pay for the high quality content

This is not high quality, this is lowest quality ever. You fucked up.
>>7211
Please stop. This is bad,
>>7210
Get that bigger
every imageboard needs to hear us
>>7210
ughhhhhhhhhh
>>7214
No. Please no. You're gonna doom us all.
>>7210
>Marzichan #1 W O R L D W I D E
case in point, thank you good sir.
>>7217
>>7218
Oh my god. What have you done.
>>7210
this is named after teenage robot?
im not gonna drag it but these big arguments we have every now and then are pretty fucking hot im ngl they feel very charged in a way I can't help but appreciate
>>7214
If it wasn't you, none of this would've have happened. Marzichan was already growing, but you have to ruin everything.
Do you feel like a hero yet?
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>>7220
I'd assume so yeah
>>7222
I'm still a bit curious what your star sign is (no ulterior motives, don't worry)
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you may
>>7226
Thanks, you aren't like my current Taurus yardstick at all (XLR)
Interdesting
>>7227
someone IS actually mad at me now I think. I should probably not stick around too long for the day
let's all meet up at the malt shop
>>7236
let's all hold hands in a circle and summon spirits
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>>7236
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I think the contrast of knowing someone knows he's in the wrong and yet still acting like he's somehow right despite it all is funny. I'm not gay and I don't like you, stop bothering me.
>>7264
>babyboy is totally NOT getting off on it
mkay
>>7264
thats actually cute though🥺
>>7265
I like when people talk about philosophical concepts and ethics but it stops being interesting when it becomes fetish talk. It's why I bother to reply.
>>7268
yeah but I don't have conscious control over my feelings. if I feel like being affectionate towards you then you must've did something that made me feel that way. Not saying it must've been a conscious "move" on your side but still. I don't pick who and who I don't like.
also "biting" isn't meant to be fetish talk. biting is just... biting. you bite someone you get onto them. It's some kinda emotionally-predatory thing you feel when you get a "I could 100% unravel this person with enough proximity I can 100% prey on them." type beat vibe.
anyone wwanna givve ol uncle eri a back rub
>>7268
that is so gross in hindsight actually. you just projected sexual intent like that from your own filthy perspective and then gave me attitude over it too. Getting a "wow look at this distrusting, self isolating, cold loser. I bet I could warm this idiot up" being reduced to "fetish talk" really shows your character there, nothing more
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>>7327
cronus hands wwrote this
Rudy, are you okay?
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>>7614
>you just projected sexual intent
What else is "getting off" supposed to mean
◆ A dark moon looms ◆
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>>7977
>>7977
the act in which one acquires but a fixed amount of emotional satiation but of course 😁

>i.e. when the avg amerikanitó says "gitoffmarlawn!111!"
as I've learned in the many duolingo courses I've tookened it is very much apparent that "getting off" is used in muchos de contextos
>>7978
Maybe we need to go back to saying "wack off."
Fortiguard is alright with Marzichan, interesting...

Note to sell to check Meshyai when I get home
something that's strange to think about (that I wanted to share since I keep rolling around in bed) to me is the concept of a "digital era" as we maybe already live inside of. it's nothing all the lot groundbreaking or world shaking, but it was mildly interesting for me to think about.

I'm sure everyone's aware of the increasing drive for censorship across many of the major platforms online, which made me wonder if this would lead to people migrating to the smaller corners of the internet and even real life AND? I looked it up. It seems that crime has risen (however accurately that can be tracked as data) in both online and real life avenues, and most ironically is that grooming and child related crimes have gone as well, which in turn makes this whole thing all the more pointless.

Which, now I might start to sound like a conspiracy theorist here, but nonetheless, made me wonder, "did these big leaders not know that banishing an avenue wouldn't stop the crime and only delegate it to a harder to track location? why didn't they just invest funds into improving life conditions to prevent these crimes and protecting the children who do get groomed (often due to familial neglect if anything)?" which then made me wonder; "is this just a general large scale move from the lazy, bureaucracy ridden governments that are failing to govern all across the globe, in an attempt to prevent the tech companies from accumulating any more power and legitimacy? are they scared of tech companies?"

which THEN made me realize just how much of my internal compass, spacing, visualizing and just about all kinds of (being a human being) exists in digital spaces, even though I can comfortably say that my internet usage has been at its bottom lows in terms of my general life. That's very interesting to think of in hindsight and I don't think in some "ooo sibergunk" way.

>tldr; "are you saying we should declare marzimin the supreme leader?"
yes. yes I am. with enough zinons we can surely overthrow at least one weird island government in the carribeans without much struggle. we'll be like... hawaii²
>>8394
well my bad on the wording earlier on, not necessarily censorship rather that the drive for "ID verification" that seems to have been popping up everywhere that I don't use
>>8394
Personally, I have to believe that the current wave of "ID verification" that we're seeing is more about pandering to constituents than it is about anything else. If you wanted to protect children, you would draft laws explicitly criminalizing the act of endangering minors on the internet, as opposed to the COPPA philosophy of doing things everyone has adopted. It's also odd that the push seems to be focused on facial recognition even though it has been proven to be incredibly easy to bypass. You would think the idea would be to have people purchase codes or cards that give access to potentially harmful websites or something if they don't want to explicitly protect children, but they go out of their way to implement near useless methods. It just reeks of "doing something that makes me feel like I'm doing the right thing without actually changing the way things are" to me. Or, if I were to be more cynical, "doing something that sounds good to people who have no stake in the issue."
>>8394
>"is this just a general large scale move from the lazy, bureaucracy ridden governments that are failing to govern all across the globe, in an attempt to prevent the tech companies from accumulating any more power and legitimacy? are they scared of tech companies?"
Mostly agree, but I think governments are more scared of their own citizens than of tech companies. Big Tech have a lot of power but don't have an incentive to use it for more than making money. Governments have supreme power and tech companies consistently cave even to the threat of regulatory pressure, making no effort to resist state capture. A lot of safety measures seem designed to provide executives with rhetorical ammunition for their "Zuckerberg asked braindead questions by congress" moment to protect them from getting legislated into oblivion.

The recent child safety pushes are a front for signing every adult up for digital ID, which can be used to suppress dissent and entrench corruption as well as paving the way for future legislation. In general "safety" is a go-to fake justification for anything and tech companies also use it frequently for anti-user policies. Examples: Secure Boot, TPM, KYC, 2FA, TLS, Google Play Protect
>>8401
>>8422
It does feel like a lot of the governmental moves on these matters are very performative though, right? I just feel like no matter how much AI and tech we have at hand, something inside me kinda goes "there's only so much humanpower these systems have at hand in order to suppress dissent" which feels like it'd never be enough to functionally reinstate [THE GOVERNMENT(s)] back into their (previous) position of "we the government are the big overarching entities that oversee the people!" like they used to be. 

Or, to put it in simpler words, I think I'd just say "government adjacent entities have been losing their relative positions of power (in functional terms) due to their failure to keep up with the technological advancements and this is more or less just them desperately attempting to regain that" tbh. 

I don't necessarily think it's all entirely too bad though but also just idk. Part of me feels like
>Taking actions to reduce crime and access to criminal activities is good
but the other part of me tends to go
>I think crime is often deal with preventative measurements more than punitive measurements

(now I know this part feels a bit off topic but I feel like you can connect the dots between the mental points) Lately I've been losing the sight of purpose in trying to think systems wide however, ironically enough, after getting all mad about baudrillard, I went and looked into some quasi nationalist documentaries, and its all kinda just been feeling very flat to me and I don't mean that from a "bro race is a lie lol :3" kind of braindead take. It kinda just feels like I personally reached the point where;
>I can't barely understand what "my nation" or "my culture" really means anymore
>Whatever those things mean feel far irrelevant compared to the things, values and people I care about
>I started feeling like identity politics is dumb but necessary (i.e. "I'm probably gonna have to vote for a "which one of these guys is "on our side" again?" candidate")
>System theories feel very interesting to dig into until it feels like the concept of "a system" is mostly just a lie (in terms of things like "china looked so much more exotic and "different" until I looked into how life actually is there and its not all too different apparently" and whatnot)
Now not to drag this too long too further but I can honestly admit that I've been pretty ignorant about history up until 2-4 years ago, and when I first started learning into it, it felt like I was finding out about things I didn't know about. All the tragedies, policies, this and that. I think after the last war documentary I watched something inside just went "ehh. I'm gonna stop pretending I have some sorts of a kinship with these people. I only care about my people. and that means like, maybe the 5-10 of the ones directly around my circle tbh. anything past that is just wasted bandwidth."
>>8422
>Big Tech have a lot of power but don't have an incentive to use it for more than making money. 
also kinda yes but kinda no. I think something I realized (and have been thinking about lately) is that money is a token of power, and at times, can be power, but money in itself isn't inherently power. In order to keep it not too abstract, I'll put it like this;

>You have power (social, connections, resources, status, etc.)
>Power can be utilized to generate wealth
>And if you have the know-how, wealth can produce power
>But money in a vacuum is not power

Something that's been very vaguely "concerning" to me is that, I think social platforms have a lot more power than I realized. I know this might sound like its looping back to the 2016-era election conspiracies (its not) but a platform's algorithm can change a lot. Let me examplify it like this;

>A generative AI platform can implement a tiny UI friction that delays each user input by X seconds
>This saves them compounding % expanse at the large scale because a minor UI friction slows down input that could come from millions and millions of users

Now try applying that kind of logic to algorithms, right? Technically, FB/IG/twatter/whatever doesn't realistically have the kind of humanpower to effectively socially engineer everything within context, sure. But I feel like they do have a lot of social power because the internet is where people just... go to, nowadays? We know that things like SEO exists and how interconnected the user data is across so many platforms, we know that searching one thing on one platform often immediately impacts the results and feeds people get on other platforms, and personalized ads and everything, right? That's what came to my mind when I said governments might be afraid of the big tech. Because I feel like if I was a politician, I'd be afraid of that too. Elon (for example) can technically implement a very minor change in the algorithm's code that impacts the feed of only an x% of their users and serve them a very specific set of, let's say, political news, and make this in a very paper-thin near invisible way. 

Like I'm sure you must've heard what "dynamic pricing" is, its basically a very simple algorithm that checks a user's cookies, device fingerprint, probably some cross examining of whatever user data they have at hand, screen resolution and generate a roundabout approximate of their financial status in order to come up with the sum of "how much can we charge this person at the most likely?" and I do feel like with the increasing development of AI in basically every medium of the media, the governing entities must be scared of that kind of thing being weaponized, but idk, I don't wanna drown anyone in hypothetical-politicals either tbh. Not like *WE* are the ones in the congress that neither of us has to care about any of this, lol
wweh
This is the final bastion of HSG now that the traitorous cur from you-know-where has rebranded. They think they have the audacity to drop decades long traditions? Don't make me laugh... I'll keep holding down the fort fellas
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>>9686
https://boards.4chan.org/co/thread/153554532/
>>9689
Not true HSG
>>9690
Then it falls to the psn group...
>>4621
does anyone know what this is???
>>9731
did a reverse image search, looks like it's this game: https://azalinworks.itch.io/dipara
>>9732
thank you anon, i was having huge skill issues searching :)
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